Have a listen to this great interview of Rick Warren by John Piper. At 90 minutes it is a little lengthy – but well worth it. Thanks David Mackay for linking this.
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Meta
Trinitarian Dance 
Piper: Is a non believer always doing the bidding of the devil?
Warren: Of course they are
Craig, it’s exactly this kind of religiously inspired chauvinism that leads otherwise good people to do terrible things. Here, in a nutshell, is why religious belief is a force for committing atrocities against our fellow man in the name of god. This is exactly why there can be no dialogue between reasonable people and people of this kind of tryanical faith because there is no middle ground, no room for respect, no honour for what is knowable and true. It has been removed by belief in this celestial totalitarian god into one way and one way only. Everything else is not only wrong but the work of the devil.
I am thoroughly disgusted by this man who attributes piousness to his theologically inspired intolerance and calls it spiritual grace. I call it poison and it continues to cause widespread delusions to be mistaken for what is knowable and true. Warren is a bully and a buffoon and a great danger to our civil rights who has managed to fool far too many people into thinking that adhering to this kind of crap is responding to some higher calling. It’s not; it’s diving to the bottom of the cesspool. The smell, however, gives his game away and reveals this kind of religious belief for what it is: anti-secular, anti-human, anti-life, misogynistic intolerance. That you seem enamored with the guy speaks poorly of your use of your critical faculties.
When you start to do as much as Rick Warren has been doing for the poor, those suffering with AID’s, widows, orphans etc accross the world – then perhaps I will listen to your rant about Warren’s intolerance.
Pushing intolerance.
Do you think being called a tool of the devil is somehow okay because Warren says it is? He knows nothing about me and yet has labelled me as such based entirely on my non belief in his fairy tale. That definition, in case you missed it, identifies me as evil, Craig… not for anything evil I’ve done but wholly on the basis of Warren’s theological belief it must be so. That’s a personal attack on my character and a personal attack on my morals based only on a belief Warren has accepted. That’s bigotry. That’s no different than believing ill of me based on belief about what the colour of my skin morally means.
Are you suggesting that my anger at this unjustified, intolerant, bigoted caricature of me is somehow misplaced and not worth a rant against the colossal stupidity that empowers such bigotry (for that is what by definition his caricature of me is) of someone who allows their beliefs to dictate my moral character?
I don’t give a rat’s ass what good someone does when he or she intentionally and without a shred of remorse causes harm: I will condemn the harm regardless and you should too if you have a decent moral character. If you are willing to excuse this bigotry in the name of honouring some religious belief, then your act of doing so is morally reprehensible. Bigotry motivated by theology, not non belief, is doing harm in this case (doing the bidding of the devil in theology-speak) and no referral to theology will justify it in moral terms. If you believe otherwise, then you are an enabler and active supporter of bigotry if it looks like theology, which explains exactly how it takes religion to make good people do terrible things.
Think hard on that, Craig. It’s important.
Tildeb… Its foundational to the Christian faith that all have sinned and fallen short of God’s standards… it’s foundational to the Christian faith that every person has sinned in thought, word and deed – and therefore if all have sinned – all have a level of evility within them…
The good news though is that Jesus Christ came to reconcile us to God – completely forgiving us for all the evil we have ever done. Whether you like it or not…every lie you have told is EVIL.
Again I state that we believe that ALL have sinned and fallen short of God’s glory… surely you are not going to say that is intolerance now are you?
You are avoiding the issue, Craig. You are trying to suggest that being called a tool of the devil equates with the meaning of ‘sin’. That’s rubbish. He’s not saying YOU are doing the devil’s bidding because you are human (and have a ‘fallen’ nature… whatever that means); he calling me evil BECAUSE I am non believer. So yes, that’s bigotry in action, and yes, he is promoting that bigotry, and yes, he is not willing to see how or why this belief he has shows intolerance to a growing segment of the population.
And this is one of the insidious practices of the religious: to stop respecting the right of people to believe or not believe what they want but to assign value judgements on the moral character of those people based not on what’s true in fact and deed but solely on the basis of one’s private beliefs… and then export this mental rot into the public domain as if it were true. It’s not. It is a lie, an d it is lying based on supporting a particular religious belief. Warren has chosen to respect his own unjustified unfounded bigotry over and above his respect for me AS A HUMAN BEING and thinks my non belief is my defining characteristic, that my actions MUST be doing the bidding of the devil. Garbage. He has no evidence of that AT ALL. None. Zero. Yet he believes it must be true in absence of any evidence. That’s delusional and its disgusting and it’s bigotry in action. The fact that you want to support his false beliefs in the service of Jesus, his bigotry, his lying, should reveal something important to you about YOUR willingness to believe this lie: it doesn’t make you a better person, it does not prepare you for actions in the service of good, in the service of love, in the service of truth. Your willingness to support this bigoted belief over what is true in fact leads you into delusion and calls it righteousness, which is a lie. You are following a lie, defending a lie, supporting blatant bigotry and you think it to be true because you believe it is said by someone you think of as pious. So tell me, Craig, what does that say about YOUR character? Just how good a jack-booted theological Nazi will you make in the service of the tyrannical ruler, your Dear Leader, you call your god? If lying doesn’t make you stop and re-evaluate, and supporting bigotry doesn’t make you stop and re-evaluate, then what will?