Quote of the day!

I think I’d be less worried about it if Piper said, ‘I come from a stream of Christianity that cherishes the ancient tradition of exclusively male leadership’, rather than ‘God gave Christianity a masculine feel’.

Michael Frost in a conversation about John Piper’s statement,

God’s intention for Christianity is for it to have a “masculine feel,” evangelist John Piper declared on Tuesday.

I am proud to be a man. I love being a man. I enjoy being a man. I call my sons, “Young Men!” I have headed up a men’s ministry at church which we call M.A.N. This stands for Men of Action and Networking. I love being involved in helping men become better men.

However: John Piper, really! God’s intention is for Christianity to have a masculine feel! I thought Christianity was about Christ, freeing all of humanity from the bondage of sin and reconciling us back to God. I thought within the framework of Christianity we recognise that both male and female were created in the image of God. And I thought that within the glorious liberation of the Gospel that there is no distinction between gender, race and societal class / position in Christ.

That’s what I thought anyways. But I could be wrong.

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About Craig Benno

I'm an average aussie guy who has lived perhaps a not so average life.
This entry was posted in Heresy, John Piper and tagged , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

10 Responses to Quote of the day!

  1. tildeb says:

    I think Piper illustrates how scripture can be used to serve a bias. There is no way except through differing opinion to show how your interpretation is any better than Piper’s… yet the very real effects from Piper’s brand of christianity play out in homes that promote domestic misogyny protected as you are quite willing to concede by this scriptural shield. Until such a time that all religious belief is subservient to secular enlightenment values like gender equality, the pious Pipers of the world shall continue to impede its attainment and think themselves honouring god while doing so… aided and abetted by the devout whose first and primary allegiance isn’t to the well-being of other people but to god.

    • Craig Benno says:

      Every thing can be used to provide or serve a bias. Your statement:

      Until such a time that all religious belief is subservient to secular enlightenment values like gender equality

      Has no real historical, nor philosophical merit. Which secular enlightenment theory do your adhere to for instance? Marxism. Communism. China. North Korea. All prove and have proven that secularism has no foundation to liberate. Within the framework of Scripture – I was reading the 1st Epistle of John, which clearly says that your religion / faith is worthless if you don’t love people. And within the scope of Scripture, love means to care for all.

      • Secular Enlightenment such as that promulgated throughout the American and French revolution, mostly by Deist Freemasons, is a good place to start, Craig.

      • Craig Benno says:

        Thanks Stuart. I have often wondered if Tildeb is a Freemason.

      • tildeb says:

        Has no merit? Of course it has merit and is a pillar of the civil society in which you live and are allowed to live. The examples you use are not secular enlightened states. None of them. You do not understand the term ‘enlightened secular state’ except by the narrowest of definitions whereby the state endorses no official religion. But the broader definition has to do with political authority from the bottom up rather than the top down. In this sense, theocracies that do endorse a state religion are the very ones closest to authoritarian states like the ones you mention. The comparison is clear in top down authority that you endorse for your religious convictions.

        There is a long and rich philosophical history to enlightenment values that define civil societies based enlightened secular values. Although I know you hate to admit it, there is a direct correlation between the religosity of a population and lower rankings IN EVERY CATEGORY of civil behaviour. Your presumption that religious behaviour as you see it ought to be necessarily translates into a better society is flat out wrong. It doesn’t. It produces exactly the opposite effect in practice not because your opinion is wrong but because you allow your primary respect to be granted to a authority that can be used and always is to suppress a civil society on the basis of religious bias. You should be blaming the Pipers of this world for impeding a healthier more peaceful world because they do not uphold secular enlightenment values to be paramount but undermine them in practice in the service of honouring their beliefs in an tyrannical god. Your notion of care for a woman, for example, is mitigated into caring for a human incubator to serve your belief that god and not the woman owns the fetus. You pollute and cast aside equality with your bias for piousness and in this way help promote an uncivil authoritarian society… just like those you mistakenly attribute to secularism.

      • Craig Benno says:

        What you forget Tildeb is that those very ‘enlightened values’ which you so heavily rely on, actually came out from the freedoms offered from the Christian faith. It was through Christianity that public hospitals were started. It was through Christianity that universities and public schooling first started. And it was through dedicated Christians through whom the slave trade was abolished.

        Seems to me, that your enlightened values owes a lot to the faith you so readily denigrate.

      • tildeb says:

        Oh, good grief, Craig. Do you honestly think I believe in a ‘supreme being’ as an avowed gnu atheist?

        Seriously?

      • Craig Benno says:

        As far as I can ascertain, a Gnu is a type of Antelope. However, I would imagine that an Avowed Atheist is actually a dishonest atheist! Because of their vows of Atheism, they are bound to those beliefs and cannot and will not look at any evidence that supports otherwise.

        Wow…and you accuse religionists of having blind faith 🙂

        However I do digress. My point is that the intellectual freedoms that you take for granted, actually stemmed from the Christian movement to freely educate the masses, which was for many years the privelidge of the so called elite.

  2. Pingback: Pox on the flavour of Christianity. | Unsettled Christianity

  3. tildeb says:

    Although many good works have come from religious communities, I think there is a much stronger case to made that these works do not mitigate the overall negative effect of respecting religious authority. The very need for these works was very much a response to these same religious authorities who caused their need! To attribute to religion the values of the enlightenment – which was a direct response to the authoritarian practices of the church – makes a mockery of the historical record. Every sibngle right and freedom you enjoy today is not derived from religious authority but a push back against it. And we still see the remnants today as we try to establish in secular law equality of citizenship. It is only from the religious that we still have organized opposition to full and equal rights and freedoms for many minorities… not least of which are gay and women’s issues. We still have theological meddling in affairs of state and foreign policy, in education and research and medicine, in reproductive and genetic technologies. Always, we face the rank and privilege the religious wish to maintain upon the public domain not because it is earned by merit but because it is assumed to be owed by dictate.

    The only thing owed to the faith I so readily denigrate is strong and sustained criticism.

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